Curse

Two April Mornings · Jun 01, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

you don't need all your points spread out evenly, ritualists can have 16 restoration and 13 chanelling and still be good as hell.

NatalieD · Jun 01, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.

So when you a play Rt/E, do you put points into Spawning Power, and Channeling, and Communing, and Restoration, and Air, and Earth, and Fire, and Water, all at the same time?

What? You only put points in around three for any given build?

My god, man! You're shorting yourself five attributes!

warlocke · Jun 02, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

ok i for one am a rit ele and i love it i dont use spawning cause i have no need to, if your going to demand we all use spawning maybe you should go join the aryan nation or hitlers dead army or some bs like that and get off these boards

Hollerith · Jun 02, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.

I must have missed this the first time I read the thread.

Lambentviper · Jun 02, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

maybe people wanna use a Rt/ primary because they can use their runes 0.o

wow, what an inovation!

JoeKnowMo · Jun 07, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I thank the stars that GW is not a one track game, where you have to play one way or you lose. There are tons of innovative and effective builds that don't have a ton of points in their primary attribute.

Also, you can have a lot of points in spawning so you can use Spirit Channeling or Attuned Was Songkai and not use spirits.

Maybe mesmers shouldn't use stances (distortion, mantra of resolve, etc.) because fast casting doesn't affect stances. Pfft.

Open up your mind. I'd fall asleep from boredom if all my rit builds revolved around spirits.

No wonder Rits get a bad rap.

chrislee149 · Jun 07, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

that is what i am saying. if a ritualist is not using spirits, then there is no need to put points into spawning. spawning is the primary attribute and only primary ritualists get that attribute.

you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.

Well, then I'm sorry that my Warrior barely uses Strength, and prefers Tactics and Swordsmanship. In fact, I'm more sorry that when I'm a W/E I don't use a sword, axe, hammer, fire, lightning, water, and air all at the same time. Not to mention that pretty much all classes "shoot themselves one attribute", just not their primary. If you're a support monk, don't run around using Bane Signet.

And 4 extra attribute points is really good, believe it or not.

ScorchedTater · Jun 08, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

why on earth would anyone want to make a rit/X and not use spirits? the ritualist primary attribute makes spirits stronger! if you dont use spirits, then you dont need points into spawning. if you dont put points into spawning, then that person could make a more powerful character by picking a different class and taking rit as a secondary.

by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.

you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.

Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping.

Two very important skills are in Spawning, Boon of Creation and Explosive Growth. A minion bomber with these two skills can do large AOE with bone minions and "reap" the benefits of creating creatures. These two skills alone make Spawning a very important attribute for non-spirit ritualist.

Isileth · Jun 08, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

I really dont think he thought it through all that much before he posted. I dont use my primary in a lot of builds. But i get access to the runes and armour for that proffesion! 16 is a big difference to the 12 max you get with it as a secondary.

frickaline · Jun 08, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

If you think that there is only one way to play *any* of the 6 characters in Guild Wars, you are seriously misguided.

Not all rits need spawning nor spirits in their build. Thats just plain laughable.

morimoto · Jun 08, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

dood....i put a good deal of thought into this post and regardless of what you short minded ppl think, i stand by what i originally said.

my original post said rits should use spirits or the spawning attribute. if a rit does not use these, then there is prolly a better primary profession that can be chosen.

i use different builds for all my characters and i find the best ones revolve around the primary attribute.

if you use a build that does not revolve around the primary attribute, then why would you play that class? (for the runes and/or armor? i guess so, but i am skeptical at best.) you would be better served selecting a different class as the primary. maybe one with a primary attribute that would better server that build.

most of the replies are pretty good. some ppl in this forum can form intelligent arguments. others are way off base. they like to change the argument and throw in irrelevant information.

Pick Me · Jun 08, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

dood....i put a good deal of thought into this post and regardless of what you short minded ppl think, i stand by what i originally said.

my original post said rits should use spirits or the spawning attribute. if a rit does not use these, then there is prolly a better primary profession that can be chosen.

i use different builds for all my characters and i find the best ones revolve around the primary attribute.

if you use a build that does not revolve around the primary attribute, then why would you play that class? (for the runes and/or armor? i guess so, but i am skeptical at best.) you would be better served selecting a different class as the primary. maybe one with a primary attribute that would better server that build.

most of the replies are pretty good. some ppl in this forum can form intelligent arguments. others are way off base. they like to change the argument and throw in irrelevant information.

In theory, your arguement is sound. If you choose a primary class, you should max out on your primary attribute. As in, why be an elementalist without maxing out Energy Storage, why be a monk without maxing out on Divine Favor, etc. Unfortuneatly, some things are flawed. It has been mentioned somewhere in the Ritualist forum that a Spawning skill that kills a spirit is wrong. What is the point of increasing its health just so you can kill it instantly? Some builds utilize two attributes (1 from one profession, one from another, or maybe two from the primary profession). It is because of certain builds that it is not necessary for the points to be used in the primary attribute, but allocated elsewhere. What do you do then? If I had points into Restoration and Healing Prayers. What type of character should I be? I can't be a Ritualist, as I didn't allocate enough points into Spawning, as you have suggested. I can't be a Monk because of the same problem. Help me out of this dilema.

Your arguement is if you want to be a certain class, then ask yourself why. Why be a warrior? Why be a ranger? Why be a certain profession above the others? The main reason to be a Warrior or Ranger is because you have access to the primary skill (Strength or Expertise respectively). So why bother with those professions if you aren't going to use those attributes.

I agree with you in theory. But since GW is not based on main attributes, the fact that in PvE you are forced to have a 2nd profession, means that GW wants you not to limit yourself, but to expand and improve your character the best way you can. That is why they allow you to change your 2nd profession as well.

If someone wants to play a ritualist healer/protector, where would you allocate your points? Why would GW decide to put a spirit destroying spell into the Spawning attribute? Why isn't there a spirit attribute? I don't think there is enough spirits in any 1 attribute to make a complete spirit build worth wild. Only because you want to max out Spawning, and something else.

So my question to you becomes, why would you max out spawning and have spirits that do nothing? You put the rest into Channeling/Communion/Restoration? There are only a few spirits in each. There aren't enough spirits that make you spirit build useful. Oh wait, you have all of your spirits from each attribute on your skill bar? What good is a level 0 Shelter? Yes it has 68% or so more life than a normal level 0 Shelter spirit, but if you put more into Communion, then what happens to the other attribute spirits? If you only have 2 or 3 spirits on your skill bar, is it really that important to have Spawning and lose the effectiveness of one of the spirits?

sinican · Jun 08, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

i didn't read all the posts i just didnt feel like it...

from the OP perspective i can see his point...

however it is missing key factors...

if im playing a rit for restoration and channeling I could go monk primary and rit secondary so i get the bonus of divine favor taced on to my healing abilities.. sure if thats all the further you look...

the ritualist armor is only available to ritualist primaries...

a chan/rest/com/spawning rit has items to hold... that of corse disalow the benefits of a staff or wand/icon this is made up for by the armor...

+10 AL while holding and item

+5+5+5 AL for spirits... etc...

if i want to be a chan rit im not going to use monk and i sure as heck am not going to invest in spawning when im not using anything from spawning that will benefit me

if im going rest rit i want some defence so im always alive to keep healing ressing etc.. so im going to use holding an item plus my armor of +10 while holding armor...

its a little ignorant to say a rit is not good because they dont use spawning...

i had a great war that didt use a single point in str... i wasnt a dmger i was playing a tank runner... yea sure their are builds that rely on the primary att but they arent always the best ones...

so...

thats all...

Oso Minar · Jun 08, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I love playing a Ritualist. I don't WANT to play any other characters.

Normally, I play a Protection Ritualist, making heavy use of spirits (and using Spawning Power). However, there are some times when I just want to switch things up and go nuke the bejesus out of stuff, which is something a Ritualist can ALSO do well.

My nuking build uses two Spirits (Destruction and Pain). Neither one is there to do damage. Why would I want to invest points into Spawning Power when all that's needed is the spirits to physically be there?

I much rather prefer to load up on Channeling/Communing. This way, my nukes hit as hard as possible. The spirits stay up simply so that I can utilize nukes that do bonus things when I'm around a Spirit. There's no use for Spawning Power.

I love playing my RITUALIST. I like the crazy drunken animations, I like the styles of armor, I like the concepts behind the skills. I really love the versatility of the class; there have been many times when friends have asked me to change up before a mission (nuker to healer, or otherwise) and I can easily do that. I don't need to switch characters, all I need to do is flip some skills around on the bar, and change my skill points around.

The concept of a Main Character is sadly lost on many people. I like Oso, and that's who I'm going to be playing. There are days where I'll flip to an alt to get different perspectives, but most days you'll find me happily nuking OR healing on Oso.

Ritualists are much more versatile than you give them credit for; there are many things that we can do with great skill, if we specialize for it.

Klmpee · Jun 09, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

the primary attribute for a ritualist is spawning. no one but primary rits get this attribute. that said, i believe that all ritualist builds should revolve around using this attribute and in turn, spirits.

builds that do not make use of the spawning attribute and spirits are not good ritualist builds in my opinion.

if a rit is not using spirits or the spawning attribute, then that character is better off selecting a different primary class and playing a rit secondary.

also, i dont feel a minion bomber is a good build for a rit. the spawning attribute makes minions and spirits stronger. why in the world then would you want to kill them off? a rit gets nothing when minions die (unlike a necro). i would think a rit would want his/her minions to live. i mean, that is what the spawning attribute does....it gives minions and spirits more 4% more life per point.

what do i feel is a good rit build? points in spawning. 3 or more spirits, a rez, remaning skills should compliment spirits. ya, this is vague, but this post is not about a specific build. it is that all ritualist builds should make use of the spawning attribute and spirits.

okay.. what about the now nerfed rit spike..gaze from beyond.. most of the spikers didnt even use spawning.. so yea rits suck because they dont use spawning even tho on a perfect spike you didnt even get a chance to see there health drop... why tell people how to play if they want to play the way they want to?

Spindraft · Jun 09, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

At initial thought this sounds ok, but the idea holds no water at all. And, my main beef here, as well as a good example, is your debunking of the minion bomber load. If you think it's a bad build, you obviously have not tried it.

In the bomber load, you're spawning att's purpose is not to make your minions stronger, it's to increase your aoe damage and health/energy recuperation when you create new minions. Every time you cast minions, you regain 100hp, 16nrg, and cause about 100 aoe damage (not including death novas)......all this from a single cast that costs you 15nrg.....so net, you gain 1 nrg and 100hp. And do note, that as the Rt's primary attribute of spawning is critical to the build......it will only work as a Rt primary, not a Necro.

Sure, it's a very unorthodox build and not what you might think a Rt is 'supposed' to be. But it's incredibly effective in many evironments, and an imaginative use of skills.......as are many orther builds that may or may not use Spawning & Spirits. You can't simply pigeonhole a versatile class into one type of task.

I now consider this idea...........'pwnd'.

Zakarr · Jun 09, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

builds that do not make use of the spawning attribute and spirits are not good ritualist builds in my opinion.

Attuned Was Songkai is Spawning Power line elite skill. It doesn't require any spirits to work at full potential. I guess Ranger line nature rituals work too with Ritual Lord and with some other Spawning Power skills. Did you mean just binding rituals -> ritualist spirits or spirits generally?

Runes are only for primary profession so it is not just about primary attribute.

Oso Minar · Jun 10, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Destruction -- Quick recharge, decent bonus damage with the explosion.
Gaze From Beyond -- Great damage using spirits, even with the nerf.
Spirit Boon Strike -- Decent damage, and heals spirits for more than the GfB cost.
Essence Strike -- Gives energy back in presence of spirits, almost enough for two nukes.
Spirit Burn -- Added damage in the presence of spirits.
Pain -- Secondary backup spirit in case Destruction goes down. It stays up for a long time.
Weapon of Quickening -- Personal preference...quickens the recharge timers, and lasts a while. "Free" spot if you want to capture Elites, etc.
Flesh of my Flesh -- Fantastic rez spell.

Channeling -- 12
Communing -- 12
Restoration -- 3

Effective and complete build. Spirits are not central to the build, but rather as devices to chain the damage spells with. While yes, this is pretty much a pure damage build, there can be variations.

I've used Mighty Was Vorizun along with my +armor set while holding an item(that's only available to Ritualists, mind you) for a nice 55 armor bonus and 20 energy bonus.

I simply prefer Weapon of Quickening along with my +armor while under a weapon skill (that's only available to Ritualists...mind you) in order to both cast my spells 25% faster AND to have +60 armor from the set.

Simply put, this is a build that I find extremely effective, and does not require the use of Spawning one bit. My spirits aren't meant for damage or support or anything, I simply need them there to get the added effects from my nukes. Along with my Ritualist-only armor and sideskills, I am very tough to take down under normal circumstances.

AND I get to laugh at my crazy drunken animations.

Note that this is just ONE of my favorite builds, I love healing and spirit spamming as well. We all know that spirit spammers are effective. I've grouped with a great Ritualist Minion Master as well (and would love to know how he did it). I bet that, with some experimentation, I could even make a decent Ritualist tank. I have four or five builds that vary, depending on the situation (and I REALLY wish there was a simple "spec swap" button that you could use in town, haha). This is just a fun build that I use when the group has enough healing power or another spirit spammer to help deal some damage. My versatility is, as I said earlier, one of the reasons I love my Ritualist, and that versatility does not come with a "MUST USE SPAWNING POWER" price tag.

Thanks for reading. I meant to stick my build in another thread for discussion, I think I'll do that now that I've written it all up.

It just fits here because it doesn't require spawning power.

mega_jamie · Jun 10, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

also, i dont feel a minion bomber is a good build for a rit. the spawning attribute makes minions and spirits stronger. why in the world then would you want to kill them off? a rit gets nothing when minions die (unlike a necro). i would think a rit would want his/her minions to live. i mean, that is what the spawning attribute does....it gives minions and spirits more 4% more life per point.

1) A channeling build, or indeed the already popular 55 Rit does not use spawning, since spirits are not necessary entirely.

2) I play a Rit with skills bounced around Spawning / Restor and Communing, but i see the point, and sometimes do indeed switch to a channeling build for damage dealing, as for sintance, killing Shiro.

3) Think outside the box, a hard concept for some people, but you say theres no gain from killing the minoins and spirits? the spell effects ALL minions and spirits, so if your playing a channeling build and that spell, plus have no MM in your party (or important Ranger Spirits) then you can cast it knowing that after 30 seconds your enemy MM is messed over. Just throwing an offensive use for the spell out there.